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These issues were confirmed to us by Minister Hulse today. For the full view, we present an extended portion of that interview:...

Hon. Godwin Hulse, Immigration Minister
"Well Jules, the response from the Taiwanese authorities is that, the photograph appearing in the passport which we and the guy got and on the national certificate is the guy they have jail."

Jules Vasquez
"Won Hong Kim?"

Hon. Godwin Hulse, Immigration Minister
"Yes."

Jules Vasquez
"So then the Minister of State, who claims to us in an email which again he confirms, is his email. he claims to us that he was in direct contact with this person here in Belize. But the person was in jail in Taiwan at the time."

Hon. Godwin Hulse, Immigration Minister
"That is the confirmation we are having from the ministry and as I said we have gone back to them to say not only we want you to confirm to us that that is the person. Please send us a picture so we could be sure."

Jules Vasquez
"So Won Hong Kim, as appears on that Interpol website is not the person in question?"

Hon. Godwin Hulse, Immigration Minister
"Well I have no knowledge of the picture, I don't know where it came from."

Jules Vasquez
"Ok, now the Won Hong Kim that you are talking about - this Interpol, this photograph that you've seen on the nationality certificate and in the Belize passport, and I have also seen it on the South Korean passport, which Minister Penner provided to us in an email scan."

"The question now arises; did this person bypass the entire system, was this picture just imposed, because we know to take a passport picture in Belize you have to go to the office, that didn't happen in this case."

Hon. Godwin Hulse, Immigration Minister
"Well Jules, that is part of the investigations and I don't want to prejudice it, because as you know we have a very expensive system, that is no secret, that was supposed to be design to be fairly full proof. There are two things we required, we required when we changed the passport act that two persons identify you; one in a category A and one in a category B, who would said that who you are. and then of course the other part that is you are a Belizean. Now when those pictures come in and that is who you are, then you are also supposed to bring that in a sit before the camera and have your picture taken. That goes into what we call data capture and it moves through the process, its printed in your passport, it goes through quality assurance, its approved and you get your passport."

"The difficulty we are having with this is that the Taiwanese are saying that, that is the person they have in jail that we have on that. So we still are having that difficulty."

Jules Vasquez
"So then, but it's not really a difficulty Sir. By all appearances outward and inward, this man was never in Belize and is just a case of wholesale fraud."

Hon. Godwin Hulse, Immigration Minister
"Well he was never in Belize. The difficulty we are having is how the picture got into the system, that is the difficulty we are having and so that is a technological thing we are working through, and we have to solve that."

Jules Vasquez
"So then there is a high level of fraud and complicity within the Nationality Section because, there is no way the minister on his own could have imposed that picture into the system."

Hon. Godwin Hulse, Immigration Minister
"Passport area you mean. That is what we are investigating."

Jules Vasquez
"But it is on the nationality certificate as well."

Hon. Godwin Hulse, Immigration Minister
"Yes it is on the national certificate also."

Jules Vasquez
"Which comes from the Nationality section?"

Hon. Godwin Hulse, Immigration Minister
"Yes, that picture is the issue, we want to say at this hour at this time on this Wednesday, and its taking a little long for Belizean public, but we want to be dead certain, because that other picture has surfaced, this picture is there, we have asked them clearly could you confirm and reconfirm and reconfirm, that this is the guy. Not a hearsay thing, that this is the guy, because if this is the guy then that's a different story."

Jules Vasquez
"Now are there finger prints and all, I know that finger prints are taken now as a part of the passport system. Where there any for this case or was that bypass as well?"

Hon. Godwin Hulse, Immigration Minister
"The finger prints are not on the document."

Jules Vasquez
"So, again another aspect of inevitable fraud."

Hon. Godwin Hulse, Immigration Minister
"But again Jules we want to be clear so that we take one step at a time, we want to be absolutely certain first, that the guy that is there on that passport is the guy they have in jail."

Jules Vasquez
"But it sounds like you are having a hard time believing it, because it's such an outrageous fraud."

Hon. Godwin Hulse, Immigration Minister
"Not that I am having a hard time believing it, we want to be absolutely sure, because then that has other implications and so we have to be clear and careful we don't want to be... - persons have said, minister have said that a person came and sat there and the person was known to him and that that is the person appearing there. If that is so then we have a difficulty, we have tried to find out if the guy had twin, a look alike, something. One doesn't know, but still this is the person the Taiwanese are saying they are holding."

Jules Vasquez
"But then if that is the case of such an outrageous fraud, and we don't know that it is. Wouldn't then invoke consideration of criminal charges, uttering upon a forge document, something must arise?"

Hon. Godwin Hulse, Immigration Minister
"The DPP will pick that up."

Jules Vasquez
"One hopes."

Hon. Godwin Hulse, Immigration Minister
"One hopes."

Jules Vasquez
"Sir, and then are you were able to say, if the system existed as it did in the pass with the special branch or the Interpol having to approve it, having to clear all names, Arguably we wouldn't have this problem at this stage or at least this would have more of a paper trail."

Hon. Godwin Hulse, Immigration Minister
"Having to clear all names, we mean in the nationality."

Jules Vasquez
"Yes."

Hon. Godwin Hulse, Immigration Minister
"That system still exist."

Jules Vasquez
"So was that bypass as well?"

Hon. Godwin Hulse, Immigration Minister
"It looks so, we don't have the file and that's the problem. We don't have that part of the file, so we can't say whether in fact there was any police record in there to other things because we don't have that part of the file."

Jules Vasquez
"Sir, and then, do you welcome the filing of a criminal report, by Moses Hyde? That he hopes will produce a police investigation?"

Hon. Godwin Hulse, Immigration Minister
"Well, it's not a matter of welcome Mose Hyde is a private citizen, he is a journalist. Everybody is entitled to do want they want to do. He is calling on the police to take certain actions, that is his prerogative. My position is that we are pursuing the administrative side, because that is what I am in charged with, and trying to see this through to its end, both in terms of officers who may have been involve and also a system that may have been breached."

Jules Vasquez
"As the custodian of our nationality as the Minister of Immigration, you must be interested in preserving as you indicated in the House - that most sacred thing that we have which is our Belizeaness. You must be interested that who violates that is punish not only administratively but to the full extent of the law where applicable."

Hon. Godwin Hulse, Immigration Minister
"If you are asking for my personal opinion, I will say it clear; I am interested in preserving to the maximum Belizean nationality, citizenship and the integrity of the passport and everything. However I have to make a distinction between me calling for those kinds of activities and doing what I do. I stand on the administrative side and that is where I am pushing to the max. There are other agencies that stand on the criminal side. It's their responsibility."

Jules Vasquez
"Sir, I just want to revisit a small part pf what you said; the nationality section, again the Prime Minister has said that 'well, the Minister was able to if that was his choice to trump that entire system because he is the final stop on that system.' However as indicated earlier, it appears rather obviously that there were some complicity if a foreign picture was introduced."

"So then, will you all look at the complicity of persons in nationality section and will they face suspension as did persons in the passport section?"

Hon. Godwin Hulse, Immigration Minister
"There are two things that I want to be clear about. First of all we did look at nationality, it's not that we haven't looked - it's a fallacy to suggest that nationality has not been looked at. It's been looked at in depth. The processes in nationality are not embodied in law and regulations and technology like they are in the passport section."

"In the nationality section, for example, the certificate is a simple document - typed up and signed by the Minister. It is not a complex document like the passport. Even though it comes out of a file that has to be properly developed."

"The final issue of course of the nationality is the swearing in. The swearing has to happen to make it a final approved document and make the person a Belizean. That is under section 17 of the law. We can't get away from that and as far as we know there was no swearing in for this person."

Jules Vasquez
"So then we have confirm, because we know they can be private swearing ins or that such has happened. Did that happen in this case?"

Hon. Godwin Hulse, Immigration Minister
"Not to our knowledge at all."

"When you say private swearing in - let us be clear of the word private. It is always done with a commissioner of the Supreme Court. Its done with the director and all the other personnel's. While it's not a mass swearing with everybody - its an individual swearing in."

Jules Vasaquez
"No such event happened?"

Hon. Godwin Hulse, Immigration Minister
"No such event happened."

Jules Vasquez
"Again it points to multiple reds run by the Minister of State."

Hon. Godwin Hulse, Immigration Minister
"That is a conclusion many people are drawing."

Jules Vasquez
"Sir, its a conclusion any reasonable will draw and I would put to you the only reason you aren't drawing it is because you are a member of the UDP of the government and he is a member of the government - of the legislature."

Hon. Godwin Hulse, Immigration Minister
"No, the only reason am not drawing yet is because we are not finish with the investigation."

Jules Vasquez
"At the end of that investigation, will you be prepared if the evidence supports it to give a maximum indictment against the conduct, behavior and actions of Minister Elvin Penner, former Minister of State?"

Hon. Godwin Hulse, Immigration Minister
"I have no problem with that. I have said my mother, father, brother, sister, wife and anybody else would go down."