Important Note: This Internet version of 7 News is a verbatum
transcript of our evening television news script. Many interviews on our newscast
are conducted in Creole. In the interest of clarity for our foreign readers,
we attempt to paraphrase the Creole quotes in English
Another teenager is dead after another motorcycle accident over the weekend. It happened in Hopkins on Saturday night, just before midnight.
19-year-old Amand Arana and his passenger 15-year-old Tkeenjan Martinez were turning off the Hopkins road into Savannah View Restaurant.
While making the turn, they were hit by a black SUV being driven by 43-year-old Denver Olivas. Martinez survived the incident, while Arana died shortly after while receiving treatment.
One of his friends told us via phone that he'd been with Arana hours before the accident and woke up in the middle of the night to the news.
Voice of: Kyle Ramirez, Friend of Deceased "Something just told me to get up, so I get up about three o 'clock. By the time I get up I checked my whatsapp and people was calling me and his cousin was calling me so I said let me check whatsapp, but she told me if I heard a man get in an accident. I tell her I don't know what happened."
"Then a little bit after she texted me and told me he's dead, so I was like mein. I tell her i don't know what happened, I just was with him. So when I hear I hurry got up three o 'clock then I hurried up to my next family because the 3 of of us always hangs out."
"So when I hears that I couldn't sleep again and I went to my family house from then."
"He was a good person. I have a delivery service, I have my own business so that was my close friend. Him and I are from primary school, grew up together and everything. He was really good to me. I left him with my bike, he wasn't no problem."
"I watch it happen. I was sitting on top of savannah me and one of my brethren and then um my brethren said watch this. That was when the cycle was in front of the person who knocked them down, a vehicle behind of the cycle and then the um person who knocked them down behind the other vehicle. But then they were slowing down to turn left into savannah. They had already put on their indicator on the motorcycle and then the um car behind the motorcycle slowed down, but then the person who hit them was overtaking. So as he was overtaking same time there was turning in and that was when the struck happened."
We was on top of Savannah and then all we hear was BANG! When we hear that BANG! Me and my brethren, we rushed down when we rushed down and I didn't know it was Kadeem and then we rolled back the vehicle and when we rolled back the vehicle and I looked down and when I looked down I said Amaad."
"When I hold him, I went to hold him and I dive under the vehicle for him because he was under the vehicle and when I dive under the vehicle for him I take him out and when I take him out and I said stay with me, but I know he was already gone and then the other guy was struck into the drain, knocked out."
And, there was another fatal accident - this one happened on Saturday morning and the victim is a 64 year old.
At about 7:45am there a vehicle ran off the road at mile 14 on the George Price Highway.
30 year old Tiffany Tifara Licona from Blackman Eddy was heading to the city when she overtook a pickup and lost control of her vehicle and subsequently overturned near Gran's Farm. Melva Meyers was in the front passenger seat and suffered fatal body injuries.
A number of other persons including an 11 year old, a 9 year olden a 5 year old all sustained minor scrapes and bruises.
Last week you heard from the family of 26-year-old Daniel Cal, who was found half naked and barely alive inside a cell at the Belmopan police station. He died shortly after at the hospital, and the Minister of Home Affairs explained that the preliminary investigation revealed he had suffered seizures while detained. The officers reportedly took him to the hospital for treatment without informing the family before returning him to the cell, where he stayed for four days.
Today his postmortem exam revealed he died from Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome. Further tissue and toxicological analysis is still pending. The report also stated that chronic alcoholism was a contributing factor.
Cal was found on the floor with multiple bruises on his body and stitches in his head.
The convulsions in the UDP continue and tonight the question is not about so-called constructive resignation, but about expulsion. That's the word which chairman Michael Peyrefitte used in a "PUBLIC NOTICE TO UDP DELEGATES".
The letter is to tell the delegates not to attend what's being advertised as a Unity convention on October 20th at the Bird's Isle. Peyrefitte's warning says, quote, "this notice serves to reiterate to all Delegates, members and Party supporters the fact that all four individuals, Saldivar, Faber, Panton and Williams have been expelled from the UDP. They therefore hold no position within the UDP and are therefore not authorized to conduct any event under the auspices of the UDP."
That's the first time we have seen use of the word "expel" and it's the same for Tracy Panton. In a Facebook post, she said. "Now the Party Chairman is suggesting that 3 of the 4 have now been expelled from the UDP when neither a Central Executive Committee Meeting or a National Party Council Meeting has been held to come to any such determination. This too will not hold."
She goes on to say, quote, "The UDP will be hosting its National Unity Convention on Sunday, 20th October, 2024 at Bird's Isle in Belize City." End quote.
Belize City residents along the coast awoke this morning to find the high tide at their doorstep.
It's not just a regular high tide -it's the King Tide - unusually high tides that back up drains and push sea water back into canals.
And if you don't know what that is, Jomarie Lanza explains and she spoke to the mayor about coping strategies for the city:
King Tides are swallowing low lying Belize City - and this morning coming unto high tide out here on foreshore - this man looked like he could ride his bicycle right out to the sea where the catamaran was making its way to shore.
Today, the mayor pointed to climate change - and the level of the Belize river:
Bernard Wagner, Belize City Mayor "Climate change plan on climate change mixed in obviously with some flooding of the river. I spoke to my CEMO liaison officer and she had a discussion with the hydrologist and they had indicated that the Belize river has reached a stage of high levels last Friday coming in from the Mopan river and the Macal. and therefore that downstream activity mixed in the high tides is what is occurring."
Or, more accurately, King Tides which appear in September right through to December and according to this fact sheet from a UD disaster response agency they are considered "the highest predicted high tide of the year at a coastal location."
"These King tides occur when the orbits and alignment of the Earth, moon, and sun combine to produce the greatest tidal effects of the year."
And with the full moon arriving tomorrow, the tides in Coastal communities will be among the highest of the year. With climate change and rising sea levels, experts agree King Tides are higher than ever.
But you don't need to be an expert to know that what happened in the city this morning - and what will happen again tonight at 9:15 -is unusual.
In Belize city's low areas, the effect has been very pronounced since Saturday and it peaked this morning at rush hour.
The mayor's advice for residents?
Bernard Wagner, Belize City Mayor "Well that's a very good question. The point is that we have to begin to really as a community as a city that we live along the coast. That we begin to look at climate change for what it is. It is a serious event that is occurring and it will only get worse. When I was a child I will tell you this flooding what I am seeing now. It's not that the streets were better, we have much better now. We have much better drainage, but climate change, the rise and sea level is what is this sort of situation."
So, with tides predicted to be high all week - according to this bulletin from. Florida - city residents will have to watch the weather report to know when the high tide is due and brace for localized flooding:
Bernard Wagner "I think we have to pay attention to the key things that impact our lives. It can't just be a situation where the authorities or government or local government it has to be you taking ownership as well of your surroundings and understanding and trying to make your surroundings as palatable as possible in respect to how you address the effects of climate change it has to be a community effort, not only at the government level."
But the government can perhaps turn on the Yabra pumping station. However with the sea level higher than the drains and canals - it wouldn't do any good:
Bernard Wagner "What happened here is that the high tide comes from out of the sea so we could not really utilize the pumping station it would be a null effect because the water is coming in from the sea, and it is now being mixed with downstream water coming in from the Mopan and Macal into the river so, from a municipality standpoint there is not much we can do. We just have to wait for the tide to go down and I believe that it will not be this significant. I am told that it is just a week or so of this sort of occurrence. I went to church last night and when I came out of church, the entire area was underwater so what can we do?"
"But we have to be innovative, and we have to look at adapting to the reality of what is happening and putting in the sort of safe walls the guard rails in respect to our coast and it could be sort of project that really builds on mangroves utilizing our mangroves using more of the friendlier type of innovative projects that really enhance our coast."
"I call on our people to really begin to take climate change for what it is. It is a serious event. In Belize City, based on discussions with various experts, we are seeing that Belize city will be under the threat of severe coastal erosion by 2050 so we live along the coast and have to take it for what it is the local government. The national government have to begin to put in place and I see this because we are currently working on a project in respect to what we are speaking about right now in adapting to these sorts of climate events."
The US Environmental Protection Agency warns that "Over time, sea level rise is raising the height of tidal systems."
The next high tide is at 9:08 tonight, followed by another high tide at 9:10 tomorrow morning.
American Firefighter from Los Angeles Gilbert Lightburn Jr who was visiting Belize was remanded to prison on September 2nd for a major brawl in front of Digi Park that left four men with stabbing injuries. He was charged for three counts of attempted murder and four counts of use of deadly means of harm.
But, Lightburn was also a victim of robbery on that same night and now a police officer has turned up trying to pawn one of his very valuable chains. 41 year old Lightburn Jr.,said that during the altercation on August 31, several high-value items were stolen from him, including a 14-karat Miami Cuban link chain valued at $20,000, another 14-karat Miami Cuban link chain valued at $30,000, and a 24-karat Coin in a 14-karat gold casing, worth $7,500 dollars.
One week ago, police got information that one of their own had visited a local pawn shop and attempted to pawn a chain that matched the description of Lightburn's. The officer, identified as 43 year old Hersel Garcia, allegedly attempted to pawn the 14-karat Miami Cuban link chain.
A formal investigation was launched and surveillance footage from the pawn shop was obtained. After that a house search was conducted.
Garcia was formally charged with handling stolen goods on Saturday.
Last week we told you about the chopping in San Ignacio that claimed the life of 61 year old Ubaldo Guzman. Today Police arrested and charged 43 year old Peter August for that chopping death. Because he said he was chopping Guzman in self defence, he was charged with Manslaughter. August was socializing with Guzman when the altercation erupted. August says Guzman attacked him with the machete - which he wrested away from the 61 year old and then chopped him to death.
Marijuana in consumption amounts. May be legal in Belize but growing or selling the bush is still against the law.
And that's why this morning police searched out a plantation and burnt it down.
They found a total of 875 marijuana plants at 4:00 this morning. The plants ranged in height from 2-6 ft and no one was in the area at the time. Police burnt the plantation.
As the National Health Insurance continues to be rolled out in different parts of the country, the government is moving it over to the Ministry of Finance and establishing an NHI authority. On Friday, we spoke to the Prime Minister - who is also the Finance Minister - about it. He explained that as the program grows, the new body will be able to better manage it.
John Briceno, Prime Minister "Now that we're reaching to the point where we're covering the entire country, it's important now to start to separate those functions. When we started, we had social security under our previous PUP government, it was hoped that maybe we could work out something with social security to help with the funding. Obviously that never worked out from early so all along social security was managing, but it was costing us, we had to pay for the service that was being provided to manage that so we have set up a unit or group that will not be able to manage the NHI program. And so I think we are about the legislation to have the National Health Insurance Authority so that then they're going to be able to manage the entire NHI program. Now that we're doing that, obviously there can be some sort of, almost like duplication of services because now this is primary healthcare and our health system, the Ministry of Health provides that primary healthcare."
"Most of that services now is going to be provided by NHI so obviously there has to be some changes in functions. The beauty of NHI is that is creates competition among the private sector and even the public sector."
"I am going to have a meeting, I've organized a meeting with the Ministry of Health and the NHI group to be able to iron out any differences before it goes to the National Assembly. It does not necessarily mean under the office of the Prime Minister but it's more, it belongs really in the Ministry of Finance, so whosoever the Minister of Finance will be responsible, it's just so happens now that the prime minister is in charge of finance but it really belongs in the Ministry of Finance."
And some of the Boledo profits will go towards funding the NHI. But the PM bristled when one reporter asked about the oversight for the Boledo funds. That spurred a back and forth between the PM and Krem's Marisol Amaya.
Reporter: "How does the public know how much we're getting every year, and ensuring that's properly used?"
John Briceno, Prime Minister "Ay Dios mÃo. Really? Honestly?"
Reporter: "It's a serious question."
John Briceno, Prime Minister "Now you will ask that question? You had 13 years of the UDP and you never did ask them how they spent the Boledo money."
Reporter: "We reported on it."
John Briceno, Prime Minister "Honestly, really?"
Reporter: "We asked Barrow and we were behind it in relation to-"
John Briceno, Prime Minister "Please, come on."
Reporter: - "Who were the beneficial owners."
John Briceno, Prime Minister "You never. Did you get an answer?"
Reporter: "Because it was in was in St Lucia or I don't know but we did our investigation at the business registry. So you can't say we faltered in that regard."
John Briceno, Prime Minister "Now let me make something very clear. The Boledo is going to be audited and when we get those audited statements, I'm going to lay it in the House so that then everybody can see the sales and then what are they and then that money, a large portion, I'd say the majority of that money is going to be used to help to pay for the National Health Insurance. Now we do have a lot of young people, we know we have challenges in sports, with funding sports in our country and we have a lot of talented young people in sports. Just last night I got chills when we recognized the Golden Girls of 1974 when they won the gold medal. It shows that if we can provide proper training for our young people we could compete on the international stage so we want to set aside a portion of the Boledo winnings to go to sports and so that money will go to NHI to help to pay for NHI services because it's not going to be cheap but we believe that keeping our people healthy does not have a price value."
And while sports and the NHI will be partially covered by Boledo profits, how is GOB going to fund repairs to the bus terminal? Last week we told you that a piece of falling concrete injured two passers-by.
The PM spoke about the situation very briefly:
John Briceno, Prime Minister "I've not gotten the report as to what exactly happened and I'm not going to dispute it but yes that whole area has to be completely redone."
As we told you a week ago - two BDF soldiers have joined a Multinational Security Support Mission in Haiti. They travelled to the troubled island nation along with 23 Jamaican soldiers- but this weekend, concerns emerged about this contingent's safety.
The gang leader who more or less runs the island is called "Barbecue" and in an interview with international media he suggested that the CARICOM military contingent might face a security risk from the gangs who resent their presence.
Today the BDF Chief of Staff said the soldiers aren't at risk:
Major Roberta Usher, Chief of Staff, BDF "So our two officers landed in Haiti approximately on 12th of September, and they've been there. And I know there have been viral videos going around causing unnecessary alarm, but we just want to ensure that the public understands that the video is based on false information and it does not reflect the true situation on the ground."
"It causes an unnecessary alarm. Misinformation, it's a common tactic used, especially in situations involving international missions, gangs, violence, et cetera. The false claims can undermine the critical work and the reason why we are there."
"And again, just produce unnecessary alarms across social media platforms across the country. But we do want to assure that the public understands that our officers are safe and they're there to conduct the mission that they went there for, which is to gather information and provide strategic and staff plans to the operators on the ground."
"Currently, they are still in their transition phase of gathering their information and meeting the necessary personnel to start creating the strategic plans to start moving out of the LSA. So that's about as far as we are currently."
We note that the Multinational Security Support Mission faces many other problems - not the least of which is that troops from Benin - which was to have been the single largest contingent - are now on hold. The 1,500 to 2,00 Beninese soldiers are in a holding pattern because that country's Foreign Minister has said his country's soldiers will not come under the command of Haitian police and that it must be a fully military operation.
In other news, did you head over to BCCI Expo Belize Marketplace this weekend? The annual two day event was once again held at the Marion Jones Stadium and had 135 vendors with 185 booths. And despite the heat and humidity, a Chamber press release says over 10,000 persons attended.
But that is a decrease from the 11,000 visitors to the expo last year - and a little more than half of the 19,000 who attended in 2013. Today we spoke with BCCI's marketing and PR manager about their observations - and whether the weather impacted their turnout.
Andrew Usher, Marketing & PR Manager, BCCI "I believe every year we strive to ensure that the visitor experience is different and new and wholesome so for us that 10,000 mark really is a testament to the fact that regardless of the humidity or anything else that's happening on the weekend, people still want to come out and experience the deals, experience the entertainment and you know, expo is a part of the September experience and I believe people look forward to it every year."
Reporter "In 2022, I believe there were like 13,000, last year it was 11,000, and now we're at 10,000. And this is a trend it seems, but what do you think, apart from the weather I would say, is contributing to this downward trend?"
Andrew Usher, Marketing & PR Manager, BCCI "I think people are getting used to participating in expos, attending different expos, especially the prevalence of the popup shops, I think we can't forget that, the popup shops, it's almost every other weekend, almost every weekend it feels like you're seeing a popup shop and some of the same exhibitors that we have at our event are at those events as well, even if it's an event that might be happening for a special time of the month. But these are the things we factor and we look at it and at the end of the day we are trying to improve the consumer experience as well as the business experience for our exhibitors."
"This year we even included a micro pavilion area specifically for micro and small business to be able to highlight and feature their products and services as well as we had a secondary stage to ensure that both sides of the stadium had some type of live entertainment that was an attraction for them to come to the event."
We also asked Usher if they would consider holding the expo in the evenings or nights. He said he's seen the suggestions and they're working on how to incorporate them.
Andrew Usher, Marketing & PR Manager, BCCI "We've had suggestions from both exhibitors and visitors from over the past couple years and we've been taking those suggestions and trying to implement them as best as possible. I think we have to look at the event holistically and realize that there are several different types of exhibitors and sometimes there are exhibitors who experience different peaks in sales throughout the day. So we had one exhibitor tell us that they're peak in sales was from 9 to 12 and from 2 to 4. And then there's also exhibitors whose sales peaked from 12 all the way to 6pm. So it's trying to find the right balance between those two and it's not to say we're not considering it. We've been seeing the same social media posts as well and we're taking all that into consideration and trying to, we're going to meet after this, we have basically a postmortem that we do every year to basically go over what went well, what didn't go well, what we can improve on. And I think for next year, because planning starts from today for next year, we're going to meet our executive committee for the expo and try to figure out how we can implement these suggestions as best as possible."
"You never know, 2025 might look completely different, it may even take a bit and go into 2026 to see the difference but at the end of the day it's a work in progress and that's what we're doing."
And while. The Expo ruled the day, the sound of steel pans and drums filled downtown Belize City on Saturday night, as the crowd of thousands poured onto the grounds of the Government House for the annual Pan Yaad festival. We spoke with the director of the Institute of Creative Arts this morning about how much Pan Yaad has grown over the years. Jomarie Lanza has this story:
It's one of the main highlights of September, a night of clean fun for the family to enjoy the hypnotic and sweet sounds of a steel pan band. It's a crowd puller for sure, and this year's Pan Yaad turn out was almost 2,000 people,
Director of ICA Kim Vasquez reflects on how much the event has grown over the years, moreover how they first started about 15 years ago.
Kim Vasquez, Director of Institute of Creative Arts "It was an initiative. I believe we have to give credit to former NICH president, Dian Haylock, I believe it was her brainchild to have a Pan Yaad, a festival for steel pans. You know at that time we were seeing like I said the emergence of you steel pan programs we were seeing at that time there Pantempters was still around for a long time one of the oldest steel pans of course. And then we had the all stars as well and there were a couple others. Panerific was really taking off at that time as well as I can recall. And then NICH we had our youth development program at that time, pandemonium that was our original vision for it. And this is where the foundation of course where pan Yaad began. And it grew, started off like I said, just like a jam session there at the house of Culture. The house of Culture was the original location the home of Pan Yaad. At that time, there were no big stages no fancy lights. I can recall the first one many years ago when I was a junior program officer at that time. The pans on the ground and you know it was just a couple of bands and then it started to grow."
And from the House Of Culture, the Pan Yaad has taken to many city venues over the years, from ITVET to Marion Jones, and back to what is now called the Government House. it remains as one of the most anticipated Belizean events of the year. However, this year was much different than others. Vasquez explained why.
Kim Vasquez, Director of Institute of Creative Arts "What was different this year was that we had the duets where the bands played together."
"The participation like I said has been fantastic. And we recognize again the support and participation that comes in from outside of Belize city. It's not an easy thing. Pan the Sea not a small program, but they come all the way in from Caye Caulker. The support and participation of panerifics and that band has three different sections, Miss and Kech, Panerific seniors and then their juniors. So like I said we had new bands we had the return of grace primary. Now grace primary has been around for a while, their steel pan program goes back some 30 years they were one of the first primary schools to actually have a steel pan program. So you know we were excited to see Grace primary return, we know like i said the scout teners made their debut at pan Yaad And SCA as well. And of course returning we had UB this was their second year returning and so like I'm saying we are really seeing the growth of these steel pan programs across the country."
The Pan Yaad Party surely never disappoints and always leaves the crowd wanting more, with a total of 10 bands participating this year, with a number of combos and crossovers between bands, Vasquez says that the audience was more than pleased by the performance.
Kim Vasquez, Director of Institute of Creative Arts "We had an excellent turnout, actually we had a slight increase in audience over last year we just finished doing and looking at the figures internally here and we had a slight increase and so yes the support of the public and everything like I said we try to make it a family affair we try to not let it be done too late in the night and try to keep it towards midnight. We know it is a busy time. The expo was happening but we are so pleased at the public continues to be so very supportive. And I think it has to do with Community. I think it has to do with how each of those bands, the parents and the wider community that supports them. But we know as well that people do look forward to coming out to Pan Yaad it's definitely something different. One of the things i think that is the attraction is the diversity of the music that these bands put out when they are preparing. So you know there is a little bit of everything. There is some pop we saw hip-hop and all from pantempters some 190s hip hop we saw some reggae, of course, some Soca music, and all of the different party music as well and I think when that really combines to a really nice party atmosphere that people look forward to."
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Another teenager is dead after another motorcycle accident over the weekend. It happened in Hopkins on Saturday night, just before midnight.
And, there was another fatal accident - this one happened on Saturday morning and the victim is a 64 year old.
Last week you heard from the family of 26-year-old Daniel Cal, who was found half naked and barely alive inside a cell at the Belmopan police station. He died shortly after at the hospital, and the Minister of Home Affairs explained that the preliminary investigation revealed he had suffered seizures while detained. The officers reportedly took him to the hospital for treatment without informing the family before returning him to the cell, where he stayed for four days.
The convulsions in the UDP continue and tonight the question is not about so-called constructive resignation, but about expulsion. That's the word which chairman Michael Peyrefitte used in a "PUBLIC NOTICE TO UDP DELEGATES".
Belize City residents along the coast awoke this morning to find the high tide at their doorstep.
"Climate change plan on climate change mixed in obviously with some flooding of the river. I spoke to my CEMO liaison officer and she had a discussion with the hydrologist and they had indicated that the Belize river has reached a stage of high levels last Friday coming in from the Mopan river and the Macal. and therefore that downstream activity mixed in the high tides is what is occurring."
American Firefighter from Los Angeles Gilbert Lightburn Jr who was visiting Belize was remanded to prison on September 2nd for a major brawl in front of Digi Park that left four men with stabbing injuries. He was charged for three counts of attempted murder and four counts of use of deadly means of harm.
Last week we told you about the chopping in San Ignacio that claimed the life of 61 year old Ubaldo Guzman. Today Police arrested and charged 43 year old Peter August for that chopping death. Because he said he was chopping Guzman in self defence, he was charged with Manslaughter. August was socializing with Guzman when the altercation erupted. August says Guzman attacked him with the machete - which he wrested away from the 61 year old and then chopped him to death.
Marijuana in consumption amounts. May be legal in Belize but growing or selling the bush is still against the law.
As the National Health Insurance continues to be rolled out in different parts of the country, the government is moving it over to the Ministry of Finance and establishing an NHI authority. On Friday, we spoke to the Prime Minister - who is also the Finance Minister - about it. He explained that as the program grows, the new body will be able to better manage it.
"Most of that services now is going to be provided by NHI so obviously there has to be some changes in functions. The beauty of NHI is that is creates competition among the private sector and even the public sector."
And while sports and the NHI will be partially covered by Boledo profits, how is GOB going to fund repairs to the bus terminal? Last week we told you that a piece of falling concrete injured two passers-by.
As we told you a week ago - two BDF soldiers have joined a Multinational Security Support Mission in Haiti. They travelled to the troubled island nation along with 23 Jamaican soldiers- but this weekend, concerns emerged about this contingent's safety.
"It causes an unnecessary alarm. Misinformation, it's a common tactic used, especially in situations involving international missions, gangs, violence, et cetera. The false claims can undermine the critical work and the reason why we are there."
In other news, did you head over to BCCI Expo Belize Marketplace this weekend? The annual two day event was once again held at the Marion Jones Stadium and had 135 vendors with 185 booths. And despite the heat and humidity, a Chamber press release says over 10,000 persons attended.
Reporter
And while. The Expo ruled the day, the sound of steel pans and drums filled downtown Belize City on Saturday night, as the crowd of thousands poured onto the grounds of the Government House for the annual Pan Yaad festival. We spoke with the director of the Institute of Creative Arts this morning about how much Pan Yaad has grown over the years. Jomarie Lanza has this story:
off at that time as well as I can recall. And then NICH we had our youth development program at that time, pandemonium that was our original vision for it. And this is where the foundation of course where pan Yaad began. And it grew, started off like I said, just like a jam session there at the house of Culture. The house of Culture was the original location the home of Pan Yaad. At that time, there were no big stages no fancy lights. I can recall the first one many years ago when I was a junior program officer at that time. The pans on the ground and you know it was just a couple of bands and then it started to grow."